Tuesday, February 9, 2010

NOW IS THE TIME TO CONVERT 1 PAID FIRESTATION TO VOLUNTEER

The mayor and the Kingston Paid Firefighters Union are making my point that we should convert one of Kingston's three paid fire stations to Volunteer. This can be done if the mayor and council were serious about this conversion. If the new, improved Volunteer Fire Station got proper funding, this volunteer station could be as good as the Town of Ulster's famous Ulster Hose Volunteer Station on Albany Avenue near the Town of Ulster Library. We should accomplish this converting of one fire station to volunteer before the Mayor and firefighter's union sit down to negotiate the 2011 contract. This will allow the Mayor to have more clout with the powerful firefighter's union.

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well, lets see. Kingston already has 3 funded volunteer stations. They are funded out of the Kingston Fire Department budget. The volunteers get the same gear as the paid firemen. Do you really think a fourth station will make a difference? Even if you take away all the medical calls, that would still leave 3,000 calls a year. Even Ulster Hose, which is one of the best around, would have difficulty handling that many calls as a strictly volunteer endeavor.

Ralph Mitchell said...

To 8:42am,
If we retain 2 Paid fire stations in Kingston and we seriously develop an excellent, super volunteer station, we will have much larger team than Ulster Hose to cover the City of Kingston. Remember, Ulster Hose has to cover a large Town land area plus a HUGE COMMERCIAL district around the MALL area. As things get really bad financially, we should have the CONVERSION of One Firehouse to Volunteer plan ready to go. It is starting to look like the Volunteer Plan may be necessary and inevitable. See today's Freeman with the mayor and council arguing over the court case involving replacing 3 retired firemen.

Anonymous said...

You're right, the volunteers do get the same gear as the paid firemen. The same gear the paid firemen got 20 years ago. And the same trucks they got 40 years ago.

Gee.....I wonder why the volunteers feel like second class citizens.

Anonymous said...

I've lived in the City of Kingston all my life and do not see the volunteers in Kingston getting to the level of Ulster Hose. A few years ago the city had a recruitment drive, I remember billboards, etc., with no large influx of volunteers. Volunteer department are down all over the Northeast. There was an article in the Freeman, I think last year about the New Paltz Fire department having trouble getting volunteers. If you have a public service scanner, just listen some day and here all the 2nd and 3rd dispatches for the volunteer companies to respond to different types of calls. That will have a adverse effect when it comes to structure fires, etc. While were are at it, how about bringing back the Auxiliary Police? Ulster County had them for the longest time. See what the Police Chiefs have to say about that. Let the process go through the courts and then we can talk more seriously about the issue. Until the courts make a final decision, all the talk in the world is not going to help.

Anonymous said...

No you are wrong. All gear must meet OSHA standards. The gear is not 40 years old, and certainly the trucks are not 40 years old. If you are going to talk facts, lets talk facts not something that somebody has made up. Why not ask the Fire Chief how much it costs to outfit a fireman, either paid or volunteer. I am sure you will be surprised at the answer.

Ralph Mitchell said...

Let's get down to brass tacks. If the City of Kingston does not have the money to fill the positions left by the 3 firemen who retired via the buyout, then we are definitely at the point of just PLANNING FOR THE CONTINGENCY OF CONVERTING JUST ONE PAID FIRE STATION TO VOLUNTEER. This seems like a reasonable cost-saving measure that the council and mayor should be studying and seriously putting on the shelf. The alternative is to do nothing, waiting until the last minute in October of this year and saddling the taxpayers with another 10 to 20 per cent tax increase for 2011.

Anonymous said...

Why does Kingston generate so many calls compared to Ulster? Locked cars, ambulance calls, what?

Anonymous said...

Remove the lock out calls and non-life threatening medical calls like Ulster Hose does, and see how many calls Kingston is running then.

Anonymous said...

ok 9:40, let's talk facts.

Tell me the differences between the gear, trucks, and equipment that the city volunteers have compared to the paid guys, compared to the volunteers in surrounding towns. I guaruntee you that if the paid firemen had to use the same trucks and equipment that the city volunteers had to, the union would be picketing city hall as we speak.

Tell me why so many Kingston Residents choose to volunteer in surrounding town fire departments instead of the Kingston Fire Department.

Tell me more about these 2nd and 3rd dispatches. You left out the part how these responsible volunteer departments have in place automatic aid arrangements so that being shorthanded won't adversely affect their district. Is Kingston not allowed to put in place such aid aggreements if it would help city taxpayers.

Tell me some facts, I am sure you would be surprised by the answers. Because the answer is that if the department were managed correctly there could be significant cost savings. But unfortunately the city administration instead chooses to alienate these volunteers that could provide a huge cost savings for the city by running them out of the city and into town fire departments.

With all due respect to Mr. Mitchell, until you fix the attitude and managment of the Kingston Fire Department, you can convert all the paid houses you want to volunteer but you will still not have the volunteers to staff them. Because they would rather volunteer somewhere that they are appreciated and allowed to contribute to the overall success of the deparment.

Anonymous said...

I used to be a volunteer in Kingston. It is generally true that the vols got the old engines. Just 20 years ago, there was a much stronger volunteer force, but when they're never used, even for mutual aid calls, the vols are going to join departments outside of the city. Start limiting fire department responses to medical calls by sending them to ALS (advanced life support) calls only, and the number of calls will fall a lot. But good luck. Unions don't negotiate. They just take.

Anonymous said...

It's not up to the Union to decide which types of medical calls they respond to. It is the decision of the Fire Chief and Board of Fire Commissioners.

Anonymous said...

To the first poster, the Vols get the same gear, handed down not new. The newest engine they have is over 15 years old. Explain the need to run 3000 medical calls? Most of the County (including Ulster hose) only send the FD out for a Tier 2 response which would be chest pains, difficulty breathing, etc. Or an auto accident in case extrication or fluids wash down is needed. Otherwise it is an "ambulance only" response. Explain to me and any one else why you need to send FD to routine things, cut finger, drunks, etc other than to run up numbers and make yourself look good? Could Volunteers do it? Yes, with the proper training, encouragment, respect they sure could. Over 75% of the country including such places like Long Island is protected by Volunteers Only. So remember this if you are in trouble anywhere else in Ulster County other than the City of Kingston, the men and woman coming to your aid will be Volunteers.

Anonymous said...

Ddin't the Mayor suggest Kevin Gilfeather run his Department with volunteers?

Anonymous said...

It is a shame we can't have volunteer politicians instead of the good old boy system we have to get people elected. That is where good people are corrupted by having to eat with the snakes and special interests.

Ralph Mitchell said...

To 1:35pm or anyone else who has the answer,

Can you explain why the majority of City of Kingston residents consistently vote in the Democratic candidate whether they are County Legislators, Aldermen, Mayor, Alderman-at-large? Are the residents paying attention to the issues? Is everyone either retired or on social services? What is the answer?

Anonymous said...

Ralph, good question and I often ask that same question to myself. In the last City election I told people if the residents are stupid enough to vote ANY incumbent back in then we get what we deserve. Well as you can see we are getting what we deserve. The usual bobble heads that just agree with what King James has to say.

Anonymous said...

You can't vote for someone not on the ballot. You can't get on the ballot unless you eat with the Good Old Boys no matter what party. Write in candidates are mocked and ignored by the media and the votes are not even reported by the Board of Elections. We need a benevolent dictator.

Anonymous said...

former volunteer here.

the newest volunteer engine is circa 1992. The city bought 2 engines that year and Senator Larkin got the 3 engine from state money. The city of kingston has since sold the 2 engines and the 3rd which is used by one vol house is kept in decent condition. The other two vol houses have "mini-pumpers".

Not every vol has "new" gear. Honestly, you don't need new gear if you take care of your current gear. However, some vols have gear that is over 15 years old. If the city is buying "gear" then they need to buy it for volunteers too.

The Fire Department does not need to respond to car lock outs - that is for AAA to deal with.

The Fire Department does not need to respond to "general illness" calls. The dispatchers [city and county] are trained to know what type of call is "life threatening" and to send the right help. This will cut down a great deal of calls.

It will save "wear and tear" on equipment and keep the fire fighters fresh for real calls.

Anonymous said...

Mayorial Wanabee Rich Cahill caved in on his call in show last week when asked about reducing paid firemen - he said he was no in favor of it. How will you reduce taxes Rich if you don't? He beats up on Sottile but will not change anything.

Anonymous said...

How can we save money by not picking up leaves when eliminating thousands of medical calls from the Fire Dept won't save anything?

Ralph Mitchell said...

To 9:07 AM,

Notice that all of the recent Common Council suggestions for saving money in the City of Kingston INVOLVE CUTTING SERVICES OR CHARGING TAXPAYERS FOR SERVICES.
(leaf bags, leaf bagging, etc.)

A majority of Kingston residents know that having the Kingston Fire Dept. respond to non-Emergency ambulance calls is in the category of DUPLICATION AND WASTE.

Also, replacing one paid station with a volunteer station in next year's Fire Dept.Contract will save at least 1 or 2 Million Dollars. We could require retired Paid Fireman to participate in the volunteer station in exchange for continuation of paid retirement health benefits.

Anonymous said...

As a volunteer myself, I will concur with other posters who remind us that both volunteer apparatus and gear in Kingston are outdated. OSHA standards demand - not suggest - that these be changed every five years. This is not negotiable. This would be whether the gear were in pristine condition. The fact is, however, that most of it is deteriorated - from wear, poor maintenance, taken by other volunteers, taken by PAID firefighters, et cetera.

Come to one volunteer station and you can see the dedication plaque for two pumpers which were bought during the mayoral term of Dick White! Frayed lomax (hoods), face masks that do not fit, rips in gloves and bunkers... the list goes on. No one who sees these things can call them anything other than deficient.

With poor gear and the contempt with which our Kingston volunteers are treated (in some ways, some say, deserved, given certain individuals' involvement in notorious arson cases), can anyone blame some more serious people for going to other districts where they are the first line of defense against fire and other emergencies?

Consider that the volunteers fought both the Pine Grove and North Street fires in recent months. Yet, in the Freeman and Kingston Times articles, mention of every other participating department is made - except for the Kingston Volunteers.

Anonymous said...

904, I think Cahill was addressing the fact that you can't convert the KFD from paid tovolunteer overnight. If that's what he meant and I'll bet it was, any reasonable person could agree. You can't expect volunteers who respond to calls mostly in the evening and nighttime hours to all of a sudden start responding during the day. First, quality membership needs to be increased and sustained. Duty rosters need to be developed so that stations would actually be manned for certain hours. Training that is now only provided to paid fire fighters for budgetary reasons would need to be slowly phased out and that same training for volunteers phased in. Certain longtime paid firefighters particularly ones qualified as state fire instructors would need some incentive to stay around and help with the process.

Point is that lots of things would have to be done before we could rely regularly on a volunteer force. Even for one shift like overnight. Cahill knows that and i think thats why he wouldn't be decreasing the paid department.

Richard T. Cahill Jr. said...

1:38,

You have summarized my position quite eloquently. Thank you.

Ralph Mitchell said...

To 1:38pm,

Your summary of what needs to be done to convert one PAID Fire Station to a Volunteer Fire Station is very good. The list of action items that you gave is very doable if you have motivated leaders and citizens. On the other hand, the list of action items is Impossible if our leaders and citizens say it can't be done. I say we could do this conversion in 18 months, if we the citizens of Kingston want to. We have to set the goal and execute it. Talking won't get it done.